X-bow poll

[Hot4huntin]

Put another way, some people will choose to pick up a crossbow and participate in hunting.

They can already pick up a crossbow and participate in hunting.

LSBA will be hosting a free youth archery shoot at BPS in Katy tomorrow. We do a lot of shows that introduce kids to archery, which will hopefully get them out in front of the TV and away from the video games.

Thanks for your posts and sharing your opinions!

[Trailboss]

Originally Posted by DZaidle

That still does not answer the questions: Is it okay for an unskilled, unpracticed, hunter to be in the woods hunting with a bow during archery season? And if not, how do you identify him and keep him out?

DZ

I don't think it's okay for any unskilled, unpracticed hunter to be in the woods regardless of the weapon they choose. A Hunter's Education course can go a long way toward preventing this.

How do you identify and keep them out? I'm not sure you can, but I fear a lot less for my life during archery only season.

When the decision was made several years ago to allow draw lock devices during archery only season, I stated that it would only be a matter of time before crossbows would also be allowed. That almost came to pass. And I'll go ahead and say it now - if crossbows are allowed, it will only be a matter of time before the season is changed to a "primative weapons" season and muzzle loaders will be allowed too. Just hide and watch - it'll happen.

Trailboss

[DZaidle]

Trailboss: "I don't think it's okay for any unskilled, unpracticed hunter to be in the woods regardless of the weapon they choose. A Hunter's Education course can go a long way toward preventing this.

How do you identify and keep them out? I'm not sure you can, but I fear a lot less for my life during archery only season.

When the decision was made several years ago to allow draw lock devices during archery only season, I stated that it would only be a matter of time before crossbows would also be allowed. That almost came to pass. And I'll go ahead and say it now - if crossbows are allowed, it will only be a matter of time before the season is changed to a "primative weapons" season and muzzle loaders will be allowed too. Just hide and watch - it'll happen."

Thanks, Trailboss, for that straight answer.

I think at least some of us can agree that crossbows in the archery season is inevitable. Therefore, wouldn't it make the most sense to accept it now--before it happens--and start the education process to ensure that those new hunters are educated, ethical hunters? It seems to me that would be in everyone's best interests--including "conventional" bowhunters.

By accepting crossbow hunters and sharing our knowledge, experiences, and wisdom, we just might find many of them migrating from the crossbow to a compound, recurve, or longbow. Fighting and insulting them only breeds enmity and resentment, and reinforces the "elitist snobs" perception, justifiably or not.

Unity as *hunters* buys us far more than diviseviness ever will.

I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said, "I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends. "

DZ

[LostHawg]

Originally Posted by DZaidle

Put another way, some people will choose to pick up a crossbow and participate in hunting. That means more people who are hunters and therefore on "our side" at election time. That means more people buying archery stamps and putting money into bowhunting coffers. More people buying gear and accessories, thus swelling the Pittman-Robertson fund. More people with a reason to care about wildlife conservation. And if any of those people are youngsters, that means more kids accepting the hunting heritage and spending more time in the woods and less time playing video games or watching MTV.

DZ

There are already provisions in place for new folks who want to hunt with a crossbow; in the general season.

Archery stamps are almost an invalid argument with the new super-combo license. Especially since Parks and Wildlife never kept a tally of the stamps in the first place.

[tinman]

I think at least some of us can agree that crossbows in the archery season is inevitable. Therefore, wouldn't it make the most sense to accept it now...

Remind anyone else of the Clayton Williams quote? "If ____ is inevitable, just lay back and enjoy it."

Hi Don, good to see you posting but this debate was hashed out several weeks ago...it's over for now. Although I agree, it won't be over until the people pushing this agenda get what they want no matter who's opposed. Remember that if it were as simple as being out-numbered, we would have never had an Archery Season in the first place.

I share the concerns expressed by Trailboss and also worry about the long-term affects it could have on the future of bowhunting in Texas. That is the role of the LSBA, to promote and preserve bowhunting in Texas.

I've got a question for you, Don...

Why is it that many of the supporters of this type of legislation have ties of some form to the crossbow manufacturers...but don't always disclose that information when they crusade?

Welcome to the site, Don. You told me once on the phone that you'd previously been an LSBA member, I hope that you'll consider spending some time with us (both here and maybe even in the field)...you might see that we are not the enemy...we just don't agree on this issue.

[Trailboss]

Originally Posted by DZaidle

By accepting crossbow hunters and sharing our knowledge, experiences, and wisdom, we just might find many of them migrating from the crossbow to a compound, recurve, or longbow.
DZ

I am more than willing to share knowledge, experiences, and wisdom (if I have any) and I already accept them. I just don't want them hunting in archery only season with a crossbow!


Trailboss

[biggen]

My crossbow goes boom ! Yes, I have a crossbow and have taken a deer with it! Don't like it and the reason I used it was on a place that the deer were overhunted and spooky and not having to draw was the BIG difference! Beyond that difference this is all just rhetoric! Oh yea why is the OL poll a farce? Enlighten me!

[DZaidle]

Tinman: "I've got a question for you, Don...

"Why is it that many of the supporters of this type of legislation have ties of some form to the crossbow manufacturers...but don't always disclose that information when they crusade?"

I have no idea. Who are some of these people?

The catalyst that pushed me over the edge on this was I received a mass email from somebody about the Outdoor Life poll, encouraging recipients to not just vote in the poll, but to vote multiple times (the poll is flawed and you *can* vote multiple times) to "send an anti-crossbow message." I am fed up with "antis"--anti-live bait fishermen, anti-AR15 hunters (witness the Jim Zumbo meltdown on that one), et cetera, and now, anti-crossbow crusaders.

For reasons previously stated and others, my intent is to see that the 81st legislature legalizes crossbows for archery season. It makes sense on a lot of levels.

I came here with the notion of learning why some bowhunters are so vehemently opposed to crossbows in archery season. So far, none of the reasons given make logical sense. It seems to be a religous thing (I'm serious), the Believers vs. the crossbow-wielding Heretics.

Anyway, I'll likely hang around until you guys kick me out, because I am still trying/wanting to learn and understand. I might not get there, but I will continue trying.

DZ

[Trailboss]

You've been given any number of reasons why bowhuners don't want crossbows used in archery only season. From that you should have learned what you came here for. Just because you don't agree with them does not make them invalid reasons.

No one here is bad-mouthing crossbow hunters. Crossbows are already allowed in the general hunting season and we are fine with that. It's just our opinion that they do not belong in archery only season.

Regardless of whether or not the legislature changes the description of archery equipment to include crossbows, it is my opinion that they are not and a lawmakers description will not change my belief in that. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still gonna be a pig.

Trailboss

[BUFF]

Originally Posted by DZaidle

I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said, "I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends. "

DZ

Thanks for the warning. I don't think that plan worked out to good for Lincoln. I think I read some where they shot him :?

[BUFF]

For reasons previously stated and others, my intent is to see that the 81st legislature legalizes crossbows for archery season. It makes sense on a lot of levels.

Where are all the great unwashed masses that want this?

[Pick A Spot]

I fail to see the logic behind the assumption that new hunters will flock to the woods just because crossbows are legal during archery season. A crossbow enthusiast most likely has a crossbow now and uses it during the general season. Are these crossbow owners/hunters lobbying the TF&G for this change in law? Who is leading this charge? I think we all know who is behind this effort.

I've pounded the keys on my keyboard many times on this subject and due to my stance have been labeled anti crossbow, elitist, etc. Ridiculous, I just feel the current weapon restrictions in their respective seasons is correct. I've never been titled an elitist because I feel that hunting with handguns should not be allowed in the archery season why am I so because of my position on crossbows? I think the true enemy is the crossbow manufacturers who are trying to label those opposed to the crossbow during archery season as being guilty of division within the hunting community.

Those that are quick to cast that label must feel that we should abandon our position and principles and fall in line with there point of view so not to become susceptible to the anti hunters and weaken our ranks. When we fall for this rhetoric and buy into that flawed logic, we are truly in trouble. We should not all march hand in hand towards the lowest common denominator. There comes a time when you have to stand your ground and not abandon your principles. When you start moving the line in the sand, you've lost.

If the majority of bowhunters were in favor of crossbows during the archery season, I would accept it (not like it) and deal with it. This is not the case though. It is my opinion that a minority with questionable motivation are beating this drum for change.

[LostHawg]

Oh yeah, and there's one thing you can do with a compound that you can NOT do with a crossbow. You can shoot it almost identically to that of a bow built by the Caddos or Osage.

I don't have a problem with a person who chooses a compound as archery equipment. I do think that comparing the use of a crossbow to that of a longbow or compound is reaching.

Trailboss, Dena, thanks for weighing in.

Brad...

[tinman]

I have no idea. Who are some of these people?

Don, I don't want to be confrontational and am personally tired of rehashing this debate online...but for the record you are one of these people. Like the family members of the TV hunter who went before the House Committee hearing HB-1334 as "concerned individuals", you accept money from Horton and work for them to promote crossbows through your magazine. I know how you personally try to influence your magazine's bowhunting contributors to use and promote crossbows as Archery Weapons...and have even discouraged some (myself included) from writing bowhunting/archery articles.

People who stand to gain financially through this type of legislation should not be the people pushing it...but you came here promising/threatening to get us next time! Yet, you portray the archery community as hostile in this cartoon you ran in '04? [see below]

Simply put this is not an anti-crossbow crusade for us, Don. It is our reaction to this crusade being driven by crossbow manufacturers across North America....not just in Texas. It is also the reaction of every other State/Provincial Bowhunting rights organization in North America, the North American Bowhunters Rights Coalition, the Pope & Young Club, the Professional Bowhunters Society, the National Bowhunter's Education Foundation, etc...we must all be too slow to understand "logical" thought.

Anyway, I'll likely hang around until you guys kick me out...

No one wants to kick you out, (though a minority) there are some LSBA members who share your view on this issue. We value their overall support and opinions as much as any member's but our actions must represent the majority of our membership. I would welcome the opportunity to share a campfire with you sometime soon, hunt some hogs...and if you insist we can discuss this topic. Maybe if we'd both learn that we are not one another's enemy, we can work together to find a solution that will satisfy both sides of this debate.

[grizz]

Originally Posted by DZaidle

No, not a "one-time snipe." I am most interested in learning more about something I do not understand: firece opposition to crossbows during archery season. I figured this would be the best place to learn.

DZ

Welcome, and this is a sensitive topic for me so I'll keep it to basics. Archers, must execute the shot in the presence of the game. This means plan the shot, DRAW in the presence of game and HOLD the weapon at draw until the shot presents itself. Most Bows, even with 65-80% lettof, are hard to keep drawn while the game takes it's time meandering thru.
This is the SKILL of archers and the basics of a primitive weapon.

Xbows- are shoulder fired like a rifle, scoped for long distance shooting, high poundage, small bolt for extended range, and can be loaded and held loaded indefinately. This equated to me a modern weapon.

My main objection is that public lands cannot withstand the hunting pressure of an extended MODERN weapon season. We public land hunters have very low sucess numbers, see few deer and not many public land deer reach maturity of 4-8 years. A global passage of bill 1334 would increase pressure on the public deer herd and reduce the public herds age/maturity.

X-bows on controlled access properties are a different issue based on philosophical ideas which I will not present my views on