Crossbows
 

Now that they will be in the bow season. Are we going to start hitting them up to be members? Maybe get some crossbow sponsors? Make the best of it....

What do you suggest Kevin?!

Getting some crossbows from them. Teaching the youth/public the proper way to use them. Printing out stuff for the youth events to lay on the tables with facts & myths about them. You know like you cant shoot out 70 yards on an animal. Teaching them if they choose to use them how to do it ethically. Hitting up the x-bow companies for money to help support us. I am looking at it as an open door to more resources & a chance to educate other folks about them.

35 views......Dont everyone speak at once..............

The Lone Star Bowhunter Association is committed to preserving and promoting BOWHUNTING in the State of Texas.

Anyone who meets the requirements of the newly passed by-laws is welcomed to join the LSBA.

5. MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS: Membership shall be granted to a bowhunter or supporter who:
a. Has satisfactorily completed a membership application;
b. Has made payment of membership fees to the LSBA;
c. Follows, in the strictest sense, the Bowhunter’s Code of Ethics;
d. Hunts or supports hunting with hand held and hand drawn archery equipment (Longbows, Recurve bows or Compound Bows).

We will not be using crossbows in our youth shoots, allowing them in our 3-D tournaments, or accepting game harvested by crossbow in TBBR.

The law simply allows crossbows to be used in what once was the Special Archery season. That's fine. They won. It still doesn't make them archery equipment.

The time may come that we change these policies but that time is not now.

I do not care for crossbows, but to say they are not archery equipment is wrong. The crossbow was used long before the compound. One is vertical and one is horizontal, just a little modification to one. I agree LSBA has the right to not allow the use of crossbows at the events under their control.

BAR - the LSBA doesn't own or operate any 3D ranges. We rely on independant archery clubs to host our Regional/State shoots and most (if not all) of those clubs do not allow crossbows. I have asked on other boards and gotten no response, does anyone know of any archery clubs in Texas that currently allow crossbows on their 3D range?

Our backstops will barely stop arrows out of the 20# Genesis bows...we couldn't shoot crossbows at most youth events safely if we wanted to. For these and other safety concerns, you probably won't be seeing any crossbows at our youth events.

Also, as Jack mentioned, our role is to promote hunting with archery equipment...that hasn't changed. Some of us feel that this role could be even more important today & in the future as many hunters will simply take the fastest road to October.

As to promoting safety, responsibility, & equipment limitations to future crossbowhunters, I agree that it will be important. The IBEP/NBEF has a booklet and class specifically for crossbowhunters. I think that the LSBA should leave that to the Bowhunter Education people and TPWD to figure out.

Maybe it's time for someone to form a "Lone Star Crossbow Association" to represent all these "new hunters". I'd be happy to work side-by-side with this group to stop more weapons from being added to the October season.

Looks like www.texascrossbowhunter.com might have some answers in the near future.

All I can say is wow....
I am speechless..

The LSBA was established by bowhunters with a certain vision in mind. That vision was focused on hand held and hand drawn archery equipment. Why would we want to violate that vision?

You know this infiltration by the crossbow is a slap in the face of the founders of the LSBA and those who fought so hard to get the archery season established. Visionaries like Bob Lee, Ed Foreman, Ron Collier and others. Important contributors of the Texas archery heritage.

We know you better than that. ;)

Please feel free to speak your mind on the topic here, after all you obviously have something to say. Without fighting & name calling, let's hear what your feelings are on the subject.

What is it that you (as a member) think that the LSBA should do?

As soon as I can tastefully put it in words as to not piss off too many people I will.

I am no longer a member of the EC so my opinion is mine and mine alone.


I do not believe that a X-bow is a bow and am very disappointed to see them in October. How ever if a kid shows up at my house wanting to learn to shoot one I will help him as best I can. That said I do the same thing with kids with their new Christmas rifle. It is not the obligation of the LSBA to train folks to shoot X bows any more than it is our responsibility to train gun hunters.

:err:OMG....

Are you aware that the LSBA is a 501.3.c non profit designed to fight for bow hunters rights in Texas? Do you know that we must follow the By-Laws, part of which Jack posted?

The LSBA is not just your ordinary club. If you wish to be a member of an ordinary club that accepts x-bows with open arms, you can excercise your right to join one. If there are none out there then you can always start one. If you do not like the direction the LSBA has laid down, you can either step up and volunteer and attempt to work change from the inside, drop the issue and get over it, or don't renew your membership.

Those are your adult choices. Now act like an adult and excercise one! :spank:

Your right....



d.to provide training for others in safety, shooting skill and hunting techniques;

or how about this one?

d.hunts with archery equipment that meets the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department’s requirements. The LSBA recommends that the heaviest bow that can be handled with accuracy be used in the hunting of large game.

This association no matter how big will only be as strong as the members that participate. When the members that participate get scrutinized on any idea they bring up I.E. the things I brought up on the magazine or this idea to help raise public awareness & money for us, you will just have members. Your right though, I made my "adult choice".

That might be a little harsh:mad:

Kevin:

As a member of the EC who is elected by the membership of the association, I appreciate your questions, membership, participation in the LSBA and welcome your suggestions! The By-Laws you quoted are the previous By-Laws which were recently amended by a vote of the membership. As Jack indicated, at this time, the LSBA's position on crossbows remains the same.

I personally hope that you will continue to support the LSBA even though we may not see eye to eye on this point.

Please do not hesitate to contact me with any suggestions or questions you have concerning the LSBA. I cannot promise you that they will be implemented or that we will agree, but I can promise you I will listen to what the members have to say.

Thank you for supporting the LSBA!
Dena

This is the online "voice" of the membership on this matter.

I was voting no everyday... Heck I even wrote our Governor. It's not that I want them in Oct. They are there now our voice was not loud enough. Like I said before we are only as strong as the members that participate no matter how many "members" we have.

:D

I think Travis was voting "Yes" on everyday, so he evened you out.

Kevin, have you seen who is getting into the x-bows? I was at my local archery shop yesterday, and they said that they have not sold 1 x-bow since this passed. Do we have gun hunters now starting to hunt the archery season or is it hunters that have always hunted the archery season now changing to a x-bow? Gun hunters will care less about a archery season wheither they use a x-bow or can use a gun. This is my opinion as a person, not as a LSBA Rep. Bob

I suspect Bob's gonna have his work cut out for him.

I bet you could rig a crossbow stock to house a 44 mag. :D

Thats what I am trying to say. I live 15 minutes from Cabela's I LIVE in the archery department. They are telling me crossbow sales have not gone up as of yet. That is what scares me is un-educated gun hunters thinking a crossbow will shoot out 70-80 yards. Hell dont embrace crossbows, but lets do the right thing for the animals. I dont want crossbows in October, I know it was a hard fight to get our own season. That season is now shared with everybody & their dog. Does anybody here see Texas changing that law? Ever? Even if they do, how MLD's? It just seems to me that we are barking up the wrong tree. Lets use it to our advantage. You folks have a great weekend.


I am going to try to piss off PETA this weekend with hog dogging. I hope to have Colton's first knife Kill. I will post pictures.
Kevin

Good luck with the Hog doggin, cannot wait for the pics. Bob

Hog doggin is on my list of things to do. BAR, I look forward to some pics too.

I guess my two bits worth is let crossbow shooters start the LSCBA (Lonestarcrossbowassociation) and promote hunter safety, ethics, etc. As one who opposed for 16 years the efforsts of crossbow manufacturers to shove this down our throat, I feel no need to spend our time or energy trying to educate, lazy, slob hunters who feel that they can pick up a crossbow and shoot a deer with it at 100 yards.

Crossbow ethics and limitations SHOULD BE TAUGHT BY PARKS AND WILDLIFE AS PART OF THE MANDATORY HUNTER SAFETY COURSE. That way it would eventually reach all new hunters. Besides with the promised hordes of new crossbow hunters bringing in huge buckets of new license revenues to Parks and Wildlife, they should have lots of extra money for this. Shouldn't they?? If not, perhaps the legislature who bought the arguments that this would provide so much more in the way of revenues should fund special training courses.

I think part of this discussion is whether or not LSBA should welcome crossbow shooters into the ranks of LSBA, and/or do we have a duty/burden to recruit them and teach them how to best and most ethically use their equipment. In my opinion the answer to both of those questions is no.

This my two cents!
The legislature introduced a bill to make the X-bow legal in Archery Season.
The LSBA was the ONLY archery association in the State of Texas to attempt to stop this bill.
The bill passed, leaving the following options:
1. Use a crossbow or not.
2. Landowners allow crossbows or not.
3. Bowhunters allow crossbows on their lease or not.
4. Texas Bowhunting and archery associations by-laws allow the crossbow or not.
5. Take up golf.

This subject is a moot point now and has been rode hard and put up wet. I think it is time to move on to more important current matters that must be dealt with such as:
1. Election of new LSBA Exective Council Members for the coming year.
2. A new editor for the LSBA magazine. (very important)
3. A new Banquet chairperson
4. Membership recruitment methods ( on-going for 35 years)
Your input and ideas would be most welcome to the current and future LSBA E.C., and would be a lot more productive for the growth of our association than wasting time on a dead horse.
Ron Collier Records Chairman

I need to teach Von Evans how to use the internet.

Kyle Scott

This almost sounds like a defeatist attitude, like you're giving up. If Washington had had the same we would have never won our independence. I wouldn't give up and make it easy and cost free just because we lost the first few rounds. PA is working hard, they have replaced two crossbow supporters on their game commission and now have a very good chance of reversing the crossbow for money agenda in PA.

You're right about the crossbow being in the minority as support for the crossbow is not being represented by actual crossbow hunters. Its running almost 7 to 1 against the crossbow being allowed during archery seasons. This ratio also runs the same with managers of our public hunting properties. Most public land managers will work to keep the crossbow out of archery season if we just give them the support and data to do so. When they learn there are no crossbow clubs teaching crossbow safety and that crossbow safety was not taught in Hunters Ed even managers that would support the crossbow issue have second thoughts.

The NRA and ATA have to pay a price, boycott. If they don't this will never end until all 50 states are included into their crossbow for money agenda.

I dont think I am giving up. & the comments about beating a dead horse & drop it & their more important things sounds more like giving up to me. If this is such a dead horse why is it such a heated topic? As far as PA goes Jack our Pres that is doing a good job I might add once said he was not keeping up with stuff in other states so I dont have much to say about them. I have & will continue to make youth shoots & get bows in the hands of kids & adults that have not shot a bow before. If people want to bash me because I have different views...thats cool we live in the best state in the best country on earth. It is their right to do that just as it is my right to post my views. I would like to remind people that this is a public forum. Everyone can read all comments on here. If you think TP&W or the same senators & reps that we write dont look on here you are a little off. I chose to post this subject here to talk to our members that do visit, but lets keep in mind not all visitors are members.
Ron I still try to bring in new members. Just ask Jack. Our guest speaker at the banquet was not a member. I took the time to give him a magazine & membership application & talked to him about becoming a member in the line after his speech.

BAR,
No one in the leadership of the LSBA now or the past has ever given up on any issue that effects our sport. As president, two terms, and legislative chairman years ago, I bear the scars of dealing with the early years of anti-bowhunting that was dealt mostly by TP&W and County Commissioners Court. We won some of the battles, lost a few, and had to make some concessions along the way to maintain the "Special Archery Season", which began in the early '60's on a limited basis of 9 counties in the hillcountry.
I was a part of the conception and beginning of the LSBA in 1974. I still serve the LSBA to the best of my ability.
I seldom express my views on this website, but when I do, you can bet your S.A. they are from experience, not a defeatish attitude.
I do agree with you on one thing, Jack Jetton has done a fine job dealing with the problems this past year, and I am glad he has signed up for another year.
Ron Collier

Ron let me say first thanks for what you have done & are still doing.
That said dont take nothing I say in the wrong context. Calling this subject a "moot point" & saying we need to "move on to more important current matters" sends me the wrong impression I guess. This is important & current.
Can I ask how you & some of the old timers felt when compound bows started becoming more popular back then? How long before wheeled bows were considered a moot point? Now they are 90% of what is used at our youth events.

When the first compounds came out, the group of us that were bohunters watched these contrapions at field shoots with interest. It was apparent that the compound shooter that finished the course carried the best tool box to keep it running. Our general opinion was that this was not reliable to hunt with. When Jennings came out with the Model-T 2 wheeler, around 1973, bowhunters jump on it because it required little or no adjustments to keep it together. The early compounds were noisy and heavy. To us, it was just a bow with training wheels. I don't remember any great disapproval by the locals. P&Y put up some resistance but accepted it.
I was one of the early senior members in the PBS, but I dropped my membership because they speak out of the side of thier mouth. They welcomed the compound shooters dues but then turn around and say if you did'nt shoot a stick bow and big broadheads, you were'nt "DoDo". ( At that time, I did shoot a stick bow and big broadheads, BUT I WAS'NT BRAINWASHED)
This will be my 50th year to bowhunt. Of that, I have shot a compound 9 years, twice for major bow companies hunting advisory staffs, and 8 of those years, I shot instinctive and with fingers. I prefer and use a recurve today and will do so until I "croak".
A bow is a bow, be it a longbow, recurve, or compound. A CROSSBOW IS NOT A BOW!
You know, my wife is an English teacher, and I get corrected everyday, so if "moot point" was a bad choice of words then I retract it.
But I will say that in my opinion, the crossbow is behind us for now and I am sure it will be dealt with again, but I think the LSBA needs to fill some crucial positions that are being vacated to keep us afloat.
Ron

Thanks for the calm response Ron.
I am going to let this thread go ahead & fade away for now. You mentioned your wife was a teacher. So I took the time to look crossbow up on wikipedia.com. That is like an online encyclopedia my kids introduced me to. Here is what it had to say.

"A crossbow is a weapon consisting of a bow mounted on a stock that shoots projectiles, often called bolts. The medieval crossbow was called by many names, most of which derived from the word ballista, a siege engine resembling a crossbow in mechanism and appearance."

Another little tidbit of history. When the French & Spainards using crossbows attacked Great Britian , the english drove them back into the ocean with the longbow, greater range and penetration.
Have a nice day,
Ron

Ron and Bust, that was some good back and forth. I like the way ya'll conducted yourselfs. Well done :congrats:

LOL I love it
You have a great day too.

It seems unfair that crossbow legalization can be brought up year after year only to be rejected. Then one day it passes and it's forever a part of the archery only season. That's just like saying in a best of 7 World Series in baseball, that one team only has to win once to be named World Champions forever.

The crossbow hasn't really been opposed to a great degree AFTER it's legalization. Reminds me about a movie, "Eight Men Out", everyone in TX was told upfront the crossbow issue was a forgone conclusion, everyone was told there was no opposition and there wasn't anything the bowhunters could do to stop it.

My personal wants for TX, now dictated by the crossbow agenda, is to lobby for a new "original archery only season" during a different time frame. Recurves, long bows, and compounds with restrictions(65% let off, hand held-hand drawn and hand released. No tigers, limited to one sight pin). Will this ever happen, maybe when it snows in heck.

I'd go back and do exactly what HB968 did, modify the existing law. Restrict the use of crossbows to the handicap, youth and those over 65yrs of age, and return the verbage that archery equipment must be hand held, hand drawn, and hand released otherwise. If bowhunters would join together and inflict enough pain and suffering on the ATA-NRA Team they would welcome this compromise in TX. For some reason the ATA-NRA team think they're bullet proof on this issue, I do not agree.

I find it offensive that people outside of the state of Texas, as well as those who do NOT bowhunt (NRA) dictate to us what we can use in OUR archery season. I find it even MORE offensive that our state government sided with these outsiders.

I guess I agree with Thumper on this and I hope we can eventually get it rescinded (which I doubt - there's no talking sense to a politician that's been bought)!

I guess after ticking off every legacy member along with anybody that holds any kind of position in the LSBA I mind as well continue. With words like "elitist" floating around why on earth would anyone want to continue feeding people? I would not be hunting in that "original archery only season". I started with a recurve & have moved on to a smoking fast..tons of let off compound with a trigger release.
I did have a chance to speak to a legacy member of the LSBA face to face. I asked him how he felt when compounds came out. "Oh god, I looked at it & thought what the hell is this" I asked have you shot one? "Yes, thats all I shoot now." What do you think about crossbows? "Oh god"
I found it interesting that he answered the same towards both questions & thought to myself "how long before he likes them?" I guess my point is things change. I dont agree with all of the changes. I do want the LSBA to continue to grow. If we keep acting like crossbows are a plague we will die with a plague.

I do have a question for you Thump. Have you thought of an idea to start/help overturn the law? Have you talked to your EC rep about any ideas?