TPWD Commissioners Propose Youth Rifle Season for the Month of October
 

At today's TPWD Commissioners meeting the original proposed change to the regulations was as follows:

Commissioner Peter Holt's final proposal was to extend Youth Rifle Season for the entire month of October up until the opening of General Season. Please watch for updates from the LSBA and in email newsletters. If I do not have your email address, please furnish it to me at denakana@gmail.com.

The LSBA would also like to hear your opinions on the matter. If you are not a member, it is time to join now!

Once agian trying to encroach on the "archery only season." A youth hunter can hunt right now during archery season with a bow as the minimum draw weight has been removed.

I agree 100%. I don't know why there is even a youth season. They can hunt from the beginning of October until January. With no minimum draw weight, there is nothing stopping our youth from bowhunting during October now. This just makes no sense at all to me.:confused::confused:

No

The last time they just wanted the weekends, now the whole month?

No

I agree. What's the point? Why do they want to do this in the first place?

No with a capital N. Even if a kid isnt a bow hunter they still have 2 full months or more to hunt with a rifle.

How 'bout an online opinion poll on this issue?

Ooops...almost forgot...add one more "no" to the list.

My kids don't need a "special youth season" to get to go hunting with me.

There is your poll on the homepage of the LSBA website.

www.lonestarbowhunter.com

This is an issue where we need to rally the membership and make sure our voices are loud and clear at every hearing TPWD holds.

Make mine a no too.

Parks and Wildlife offices across the states are trying very hard to "recruit" more youth into hunting as they are worried about declining hunting numbers.

As all of you know there is no lack of hunting opportunities in Texas for youth. At least not in terms of time to hunt. In many counties in S Texas the General (rifle) season runs from Nov 1 - Feb 1 (last two weeks are doe and spike).

In addition, there is the youth rifle weekend in October and didn't they add the 27-31 of October this year as well? As has also been noted with no minimum on draw limit very young kids can hunt with a bow and of course large ranches with MLD permits can also hunt rifle anytime.

This is a blatant attempt to destroy the archery season. I want a petition to carry to Tejas Archery and Clydes Archery shop. I also want to know when the public hearings are and I WILL GO TO AUSTIN TO TALK AT THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS ONE.

Please post that day and those of you working please plan on taking a vacation day. This one is worth it.

I think we should also look for sympathetic sports writers, write the Governor and email Parks and Wildlife.

Got me so upset I emailed Parks and Wildlife. The commissioners are a body in and of themselves, but if enough is said to Parks and Wildlife it will be reported to them.

If you email, keep it polite but make it clear that you oppose this.

I too am opposed to this.
If any of you plan to speak at a hearing, please be prepared.

"If" this is picked up by a reporter...news print or outdoor mags....the headline will say ......LSBA opposes youth hunting season..........

If you are at a hearing you will be asked by a commissioner why you are trying to stop kids from hunting. Why you feel like kids should not have a special time where there is no competition from adult hunters.

The LSBA EC needs to get its ducks in a row, and have printed and researched talking points. You must anticipate questions and be ready with solid answers. These people will not ask a question they dont already know the answer to, so if you cant answer a question THEY will, and we probably dont want to hear their answer.

All members who attend these hearings need to be breifed on talking points and rebuttles even if they dont plan on speaking. You never know who will walk up and ask a question before or after a meeting. You may think its just another guy, only later to find out it was a reporter who will quote the response of "a member of the LSBA stated.....". Even though you thought you were just making small talk with a fellow hunter.

I can not stress enough that ALL members who plan to attend need to be briefed to a level that THEY could do the talking for the group, even if they have absolutly no plan to speak.

Good luck and if I can be of any assistance please feel free to PM or email me.

Bear I agree with all you say. I also think that other than the President or other officially chosen voices that anyone who speaks should make it clear that they are representing only themselves or their club, friends, etc.

At most of these meetings you are only alloted a short time frame (like 2 or three minutes). They have a light system with a green light, yellow and red. When it hits red you are done.

It's sometimes worthwhile to have a written statement which you read. It keeps you on track and allows you to cram in more points in the short time frame.

When I was President in 2000 we managed to defeat a similar proposal for youth rifle hunts on every weekend in October.

It's worth hammering that

A. We personally and as an organization support youth hunting.

B. That there are plenty of opportunities in terms of hunting seasons for youth to hunt already and that this is not needed to create hunting opportunities.

C. That this would restrict or limit hunting opportunities for many hunters in the state who hunt on small acreages.

That last point needs to be made. I don't believe that any commissioner has spent the majority of his hunting life hunting on 300 acres or less with five other hunters. If you have a large high fenced lease of several thousand acres, this is not a big deal. For Mr. average Joe Plumber type of guy this will really mess up the season.

1.) What Tomme said

2.) What Tomme said

3.) What Tomme said

Did I miss anything.....?

Well if we can't win "against" this battle I guess we gotta keep popping out kids so we can use this time legally. :(

That was funny. I don't think I can afford any more kids. Besides by the time they got out of College I'd be dead.

Your daughter who came on the LSBA javelina hunt is a good example of how kids already have an opportunity to hunt. Or is it just bowhunters that are willing to take their kids with them during their season??

Tommee I had Alexis on 2 youth hunts across the last 2 weekends.

So far she has gotten 2 Whitetail Does, and 1 Coyote...All w/Rifle though...

Give me a few weeks and we will begin releasing episodes for people to watch. We are currently dealing with some legal issues involving her mother, and rights to certain film, pictures, etc......

Not allowing guns during the Special Archery Only season is important to the success of many bowhunters. Bowhunters need deer as relaxed as possible to make clean kill shots. Once the guns come out deer tend to become nervous decreasing bowhunter’s odds. Smaller acreage leases can't insulate themselves from the noise of the guns. I don't think TPWD Commission understands this. The Special Archery Only season is important to many bowhunter’s success. I hope to have the chance to explain it to them.

Texas is experiencing rapid growth. Large ranches are being broken up (land fragmentation), urban sprawl is continuing, and population is expanding especially in the Dallas-San Antonio-Houston triangle. Gun hunting leases are getting more and more expensive and many hunters are being squeezed out. Bowhunting is done at short ranges and can be experienced safely on smaller acreage even in urban settings. TPWD should be doing all it can to encourage bowhunting as a way to increase hunter numbers. Bowhunting may even be a way to keep gun hunters buying licenses that have been priced out of the lease market. The Archery Only Season is a great asset to TPWD, not a liability or the province of “special interests”. The Commissioners should be our best allies, not our opponents! Bowhunting has more growth potential than gun hunting in the long run.

The LSBA is doing more than most organizations to promote youth hunting. We promote youth involvement in outdoor activities and bowhunting by sponsoring free youth archery ranges at events all over that attract thousands of kids and their families. We work in conjunction with TPWD on many of these youth archery ranges introducing urban kids to archery, bowhunting and other outdoor activities. This year we had youth bowhunts where only the kids hunt. We have group bowhunts where youth are encouraged to bowhunt with their parents and the kids hunt free. We give up many weekends a year and considerable out of pocket expense traveling to these free youth archery hunts and events. It isn’t unreasonable or selfish to want to maintain and preserve the Special Archery Only season. Bowhunters are not selfish and welcome youth and new bowhunters to our sport.

The Commission should be seeking out bowhunters asking what the Commission can do to help us introduce youth and adults to archery and bowhunting. What are they thinking?

I'm all for getting youth into the woods. But not the idea of taking it from bow season. They should just extend the January Special Youth Season instead.

The only thing I see "wrong" with this argument is it will draw the question of :

"If this is true, then are you saying we should stop allowing bow hunting during the general season"

All the reasons you listed for not using guns during archery season are excellent points for why they should ban bows during general season, thus making it "gun" season.


As I said in my first post, I agree with everyone else here. This is our (bow hunters) time. The kids can already hunt during this time with a bow. They can hunt everyday during general season with a gun. I agree with this.

We (yall) MUST have statements/talking points prepared well ahead of time and be prepared to answer ANY questions that will rise from you statements.
You have to tear apart your statement and see if there is ANYTHING they can misconstrue, or turn against you.

As a union officer and civil service employee I had to deal with city leaders, city council on a regular basis. I learned my lessons the hard way. I know all about time/comment limits, Roberts rules of order,and not being able to correct them when they tear apart your statement right in front of you because your time to speak is up.

I would be glad to meet with any one of the EC members in person or through email and try to "knock holes" in your statement/argument in an effort to make it better/stronger.

Depending on who's behind this and how hard its being pushed, I can see this turning ugly. In most peoples eyes you are on the wrong side of things if you speak out AGAINST anything that is FOR kids.

Obviously the EC has experience dealing with the commission. I trust their judgment but we (they) must be 100% prepared.

Bear would you like to be on the EC?

100% for any addition of getting youth involved in the sport of "hunting"


I will not be selfish and will glady share my hunting season with kids so that they too may hunt after i'm gone.

X2 I'm doing everything I can to get kids in the woods gun OR bow

Has nothing to do with selfishness. There is not one person on this board that is against youth hunting and to state otherwise is pure foolishness. You fellows that have access to the large, controlled ranches seem to have all the answers but you haven't a clue how this would effect small acreage and public land hunters. To state otherwise again is foolishness.

Beleg stated is best IMO.

I can see hunter numbers declining and for reasons other than not getting youth involved. You guys really need to look into some of those issues if it doesn't interfere with your way of hunting.

So if this were to come to pass, do they do away with the archery stamp or now do we have to have a firearm stamp?

Who is saying do away with bow season! NO one. This is an addition of Youth hunting. Not the same thing.

Bill,

I do hunt low fence small property high hunting concentrations also not just high fence.

I'd give up any deer on my wall if he hops the fence and a 10 year old pops him with a rifle. I'd give the little fella a high five and congratulate him/her.

Saying I dont want a youth season IMO is saying I dont want a kid to get a headstart rifle hunting or for a kid to shoot a buck that I had been watching. That's where I get the the selfishness tone.

If firearms (doesn't matter who's pulling the trigger) are going off everywhere there is no longer an archery season, period. I have to wonder what the archery success rate would be like if firearms were in the woods during October putting the deer on high alert. Would hate to see it decided that wound rates were too high and totally eliminate bow hunting period.

That all sounds well and good Travis but still not all bowhunters have the same opportunities that others have. You still have an option regardless of what you say. I hunt my own land but it's a small tract (smaller than Joey's 198 acres) surrounded by larger ranches. I also know that our first two weekends of Nov have a number of youth involved on these ranches with their Dads as it should be. The deer are harder to get close to once the firearms start going off. That's a fact.

Quite frankly, if you mean giving up Heart Attack for a 10 year old to take I have to call BS. That's a real easy thing to say after the fact and why didn't you do it to begin with. The youth hunting isn't a new stance for you. I'm sure not saying your heart isn't in the right place but I really don't think you guys are thinking this thing through from all the angles.

Yup and I WORK on those "big controlled ranches" I guide on them, but I've only "Shot" does, hogs and coyotes on the King, and the only thing I have been able to "hunt" there is the Nilgai bull I shot and have the skull sitting on my desk. I've hunted public land and it's not that bad, you just got to know where to go and if it's so hard then be like most and put in for the harder to get hunts where there is less pressure. The location of the hunting (since most of those "Large, controlled Ranches" also do numerous youth hunts several times a year, plus the leases on some of these ranches also do youth hunts) is irrelavant. If the deer are going to be that spooky then it's amazing how us bowhunters can kill anything during the general season!!!

Sorry JR but your experience is apparently limited making this statement. I find it curious that you keep knocking bowhunting during the Gen Season but don't mind putting the youth in the Archery Only.

I've had my say, I'm done.

To carry on the sport i'd give it up in a heart beat. For just someone to shoot it to shoot it no, under our high fence. I wouldnt let a kid shoot a deer that big for the first buck at our place. I guess you just dont understand how our family works. We give back because we have been given plenty.

Low fence if the buck jumped the fence and was shot by a youth hunter on opening weekend of bow season with a rifle I'd congratulate him/her and be as happy as can be.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice to gain. Granted I'd much rather shoot the deer but if someone else did no problem here! I shot him because he was the biggest I've ever seen. I dont shoot deer like that back to back to back. We rotate on our ranch. We all give and take. No selfishness.

If you think i'm full of it so be it. I've put in the time, i alone have introduced 8 new hunters to bow hunting this season alone! Have taken numerous youth hunters/new hunters/vets over the last 5 years and will continue to do so. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or for anyone here to justify what I do. I do it cause I actually care about this sport.



In regard to guns. You or anyone can get MLD right now and start blazing away with guns in October. The doom and gloom you keep predicting is here and the sky is not falling yet.

if any of you have ever been to a function where the L.S.B.A.was there you would know our dedication to ours as well as any youth out there is un wavering.just show up and spend 8 hours in the heat pulling arrows and kneeling down to help show a youngster how to hold a bow and release an arrow.this is bigger than your personal accomplishments of getting however many new hunters this year or last, this is our heritage.there isnt anyone amoung us that hasnt got someone started hunting our young people today arent tought to wait for things the old patientce is a virtue is being lost.and it is being taken by men who just dont want to share their openining morning with their young people ,here is where your selfishness shows its ugly head not by the L.S.B.A.trying to hold on to what is precious to us i am one of the biggest advocates for youth that i know i cut 3 adult classes to add young people classes to our 3d season and i took some ugly comments from those adult class people.youth are being used as shields to get symphony from those of us who may be on the fence kids can still hunt and they should hunt.let them learn to wait for their rewards so there is an appreciation for their accomplishments.within the peramators of a legitamate hunting season.if those of you who want to take youth hunting they have almost 3 months in general season to do so as well as let them have a bow for the month of oct.i love my family and i love all children!make no mistake about it this is not about young people hunting this is about parents who dont want to take their kids hunting on their time so it is better to do it on our time {bowhunters }now we need to unify and and quash this as a united organization. yours truly.

I've said on tbh and I'll say it right here again. I do not discredit any of the activities that LSBA puts on for youth. You will never hear those words come out of my mouth. This has nothing to do with the LSBA programs.

We only recruit people that already hunt and we want them to join the bowhunting group.

We need to be recruiting hunters. Not people who have hunted or just gun hunt but anyone that would say yes to the following question.

I know you may be against hunting, but hey why dont you and your kid/wife/cousin niece nephew come down with me and hunt some squirrels/hogs/deer with rifles,bows,slingshots, eat some good food and enjoy the peace of the outdoors. We'd love to have you as apart of the outdoorsman family.



Then recruit them to bowhunting after the fact.

I'm sorry but me as an indivdual entity can do much more by doing this than I can just helping out at a sponsored event. Not discrediting or anything just saying I can do much more on my dime and time.

Travis I'm not questioning at all you or your family's commitment to getting folks involved in hunting at your ranch. That is a commendable thing to do but what you and others are advocating flies in the face of what those before you and me have done for the sport of bowhunting in Texas and that I can't condone. I am done now.

Mesquitecountry where I disagree with you is your apparent belief that more youth rifle weekends in October is necessary for youth recruitment. With 10-15 weekends already available for kids to rifle hunt deer, this will, (in my view) have little impact in terms of youth recruitment. It is not time to hunt that is restricting kids from hunting it's affordable leases and places to go.

In addition if you are interested in continuing hunting as a tradition in Texas you need to broaden your view to include not just new hunter recruitment, but also hunter retention as well.

I would not be a hunter today if it were not for the special archery season and bowhunting. On the small acreage leases I could afford in Central Texas the deer disappeared after opening weekend of rifle season. A 30 day season where I could at least see deer in October kept me going. If you "ruined" the opportunity to hunt on those small acreages in October, I and many like me would not be around and you'd have a net loss in hunter numbers.

In addition, you can bowhunt many more people on an archery lease than you can one that is primarily for rifles. This includes kids. With the decision to do away with the minimim poundage draw weight, practically any kid can bowhunt. A good example was at the recent LSBA deer hunt at the Palmer ranch where a 9 year old harvested an 8 pt.

Instead of trying to encourage all kids to become rifle hunters during archery season, why not encourage them to pick up a bow. My youngest son (who is now 29) remarked on one of his first bow hunts that "This (bowhunting) is a lot harder than hunting with a rifle, and a lot more fun."

Let's don't degrade an existing season, but rather encourage kids to bowhunt. Those that do, will be much more likely to become lifetime hunters which is really the desired goal. What about a "youth only" archery weekend the weekend before archery season starts. Now that might work toward hunter recruitment indeed.

Why is it that everytime someone that comes along that is younger that wants to improve something it is given a negative connotation Bill?

I know this is far fetched but it is an analogy not really pertinent but an analogy nonetheless.

Slavery was supposedly a great thing at one time, well we all know for a fact that it was one of the most devastating misuse of power in history. Not comparing the two but just playing the devils advocate.

I'm not for opening october to all hunters with rifles and I'm glad we have a bow season in Texas. But the youth are our future and all I hear is I dont want guns blasting around me shooting "my" deer. I'm not saying this is the answer to promote hunting. Probably wont even work. But we must do something.

Tomme,

Oddly enough I agree with you on this last paragraph. I think that would drive up bowhunting opportunities and recruitment.

Retension is really a case by case issue. Some people will just stop. It's like the unemployment rate. You always have some that want to but choose not to.

In regards to your reference of your son. In all actuality he is not the demographic we are chasing. Really we should not focus on the kids that we know are going to hunt in some form or another.

You see it as degrading. I see it as an opportunity.

Mesquite you said

"In regards to your reference of your son. In all actuality he is not the demographic we are chasing. Really we should not focus on the kids that we know are going to hunt in some form or another."

You added

"You see it as degrading. I see it as an opportunity."


Mesquite, I have four kids, all tried hunting with a rifle. Only one took up bowhunting and he is the only one that still hunts, so you are wrong when you say that this is not the demographic we are chasing. If there hadn't been an archery season he never would have tried bowhunting and I would have no kids that still hunt.

As you know I pointed to the degrading of the archery season due to an intrusion of rifle hunters. I think that it readily and logically apparent to those of us who have had to hunt on small acreages. I regularly hunted and introduced others to hunting on my Texas vet tract of 35 acres in Burnet county. Lots of deer (small, but lots of deer). And yes putting rifle hunters on the next small acreage tract would have degraded the heck out of the season.

You say that you see it as an opportunity, but you failed to point out why that is the case. I asked previously, why if kids already have the opportunity to deer hunt with a rifle on weekends in November, December and January plus a weekend in October that they need the other October weekends. You failed to answer that question.

Plenty of opportunities for youth rifle hunting for deer already exist plus many more opportunities to take a kid squirrel hunting, rabbit hunting etc. You haven't given any arguments for why these weekends are needed.

Let me make a suggestion to you. Go to Parks and Wildlife and propose that only youth be allowed to hunt with a rifle for the first nine days of the rifle (general season). That's the first two weekends plus the intervening weekdays. If you truly believe in more youth rifle opportunities at any cost then you will support this even though it takes away from your season. But hey don't look at it as taking away or degrading your season, look at it as an opportunity.

I imagine you'll say that this isn't the same as this doesn't allow people to hunt during that time. I've got news for you, putting hunters with rifles right next door to my small archery stand doesn't allow me to hunt either.

We don't need 4 more youth hunt weekends. I don't believe it will do much to recruit youth hunters. It will hurt the archery season.

I would like to help as much as I can. As far as being on the EC......first I need to get off my butt and send Dena some money :D I always say "I need to join the LSBA" but put off calling Dena till "next week" and it just hasent happened yet. :grandpa:But it will...soon. :o

I truly believe in what yall are doing for our sport and our rights and want to be a part of it. I did donate a lot of money :beer:at the LSBA banquet this year so that should count for something...:D

Anyway, I will be contacting Dena on the 21st (thats when I get home) and I'll gladly pay my dues and join the fight as a member.

Until then I will still be glad to help any way I can. All you have to do is ask.

Just figured out I could join from the site using pay pal. Done deal, I'm all signed up now!

Welcome aboard Omni. ;)

As to the rifle hunting in October weekend thing.

The LSBA is a bowhunting organization in the endeavor to promote and preserve bowhunting. It only makes sense that our intent is to preserve the archery season. Allowing the use of rifles during the archery season is not doing that.

And yes, we are pursuing getting more youth involved in hunting. Look at all the work Ronny and them did in concert with Palmer to get those kids on stand. How about our efforts at the Expo and the various shows. Look what Dena and Bob are doing? How about Kevin Hilbig? That guy has bent over backwards for the kids. Buff? Shoot, we've put as much or more effort in this preservation of our short 30 days than any other organization does for the other 335.

I say no to rifle weekends and no to extending the rifle season. October is for archery.

Not to mention 3D.

It is an opportunity for more days make it easier for more youth and their families to get a "headstart". Kids deserve a head start as much as anyone. Why not give them a chance to kill a good buck before every tom dick and joe blast a buck on your neighboring 35 acres. They're going to die most likely anyway. Why not give kids a chance.

If your kids wouldnt have tried bowhunting then that is your duty as their leader. If they fall out of hunting then somewhere along the line we failed them by not giving them enough. But your children are not the demographic we are looking for. Your children, being that you have an extremely proud hunting back ground would be almost guaranteed to hunt. We as a group need kids that would never pick up a gun or bow and take them to hunt. Picking up every person that PETA has missed. That's who we need. I'm sorry but your's and my kids or anyone else that's on this site or tbh are not the kids that we need to worry about. We need numbers.

I'm a bowhunter not just a rifle hunter. My preferred method always has been bowhunting. I'm all for taking away from my season. I just think it should be done in bow season! General season is already set in place. Why would we change what they already have. We need to provide more opportunities. More opportunities equals more time in the woods for kids. Dont go into the well their parents should be going during general season. That is irrelevant. If we picked up 5 extra youth hunters because of this than we did our job. That's 5 more than we didnt have yesterday.

Thank you for proving my point. Selfishness will be the death of our sport. You dont want youth to hunt to be able to shoot a deer next door to you. You dont want them to shoot crossbows. You dont want anyone hunting on "your" month. If you dont like your lease and the neighbors are screwing it up then do what any american does. Work harder and get something you like. Somebody could start gun hunting MLD next door to you tomorrow and their not a thing you could do about it. Wouldnt you at least rather have kids smiling with a buck or someone shooting 10 deer for culls that you would have been proud to kill.

At least you have been steady in your ideology. You only want "your" way.

This is why our sport is dying. Because selfishness and greed, because we as a whole are unwilling to give up anything of "ours" to carry on the torch.

I've hunted low fence, low population, small acreage. Does it suck. Yes! If you dont like the way your neighbors hunt get up and go talk to them. TPWD has done an excellent job putting in antler restrictions and improving populations. Now it is up to us to make sure we continue on the heritage.

Umm, Archery season is already set in place too.

I dont know this for a fact, but have been told that bow hunters proposed a self imposed "tax" (archery stamp) to be allowed to hunt in Oct. This was done so hunts could take place without competition from gun hunters.

As has been said MANY times already, there are already special youth only days, and they can hunt ALL season anyway. Why let them hunt with a gun during October? If they want to hunt in Oct, teach them to shoot a bow.





I agree 100%, we should strive to continue our bow hunting heritage to kids and adults during Oct and all season long. We should also strive to continue our hunting heritage during all of general season using all legal means.